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Talk:United Federation of Planets
:See: Talk:United Federation of Planets/Archive, for dated or obsolete discussion on this topic. Maintenance discussions Featured status Should there be some automatism to "un-feature" an article that has been re-factored considerably? If an article is split up into several sub-articles (or otherwise changed in a major way), should the original retain its status as a featured article? Should it automatically lose that status? Or should it be reconsidered on the nominations page? -- Cid Highwind 15:47, 12 Aug 2004 (CEST) :I think it should at least be reconsidered. Ottens 15:57, 12 Aug 2004 (CEST) ::I agree. Perhaps we should make a special page for featured articles that ave undergone major edits. People could vote Keep or Remove. Alternatively, it could be posted on un-feature, but that has such a negative sound to it. -- Redge | ''Talk'' 19:36, 12 Aug 2004 (CEST) :::We do. Memory Alpha:Featured article removal candidates. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 18:45, Aug 13, 2004 (CEST) Featured status (redux) This article is/was full of un-cited references and I don't see a discussion that made this article featured. I personally thing it is a run of the mill, poor quality article, with a vast majority of it misplaced at Federation history. Anyway, I removed: :"Advances in technology and a drastic shift in public attitudes towards wealth made traditional currencies obsolete in the 22nd century, ushering in the New World Economy. The introduction and advancement of replicators during the mid-to-late 24th century also drastically changed the orientation of the economy, as matter-energy conversion reduced the cost of most small- to medium-scale objects to practically nothing. Large-scale construction was efficiently handled, as well." It was not cited, and for that matter, seems to be talking about Earth, in the beginning, rather than the Federation. --Alan 22:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC) "Featured" removal This article is/was full of un-cited references and for that matter, I don't see the discussion that made this article featured. Other than the primped up images in the article, and the poor organization, which I attempted to remedy, I personally think it is little more than a run of the mill, poor quality article, with a vast majority of it misplaced at Federation history. --Alan 22:55, 8 July 2007 (UTC) :Well, here's the "discussion" for this page's featured status nomination: :*''Self-nomination. An article about Federation history, government, and economy. -- Dan Carlson 20:49, 16 May 2004 (CEST)'' :It was added on 16 May 2004. There were no replies, and it was removed and deemed successful on 27 May 2004. The featured template was added to the article on 26 July 2004. Anyway, the page has definitely been improved, but I don't think it's really featured quality in its current state. Moving the info at Federation history to United Federation of Planets will certainly help. Anyway, I support removal unless someone fixes this up within seven days. --From Andoria with Love 09:43, 9 July 2007 (UTC) *'Support' I think this one has potential, but is just not comprehensive enough for a subject so important to Star Trek, and the Federation. -Nmajmani 12:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC) *'Support'. -- Renegade54 14:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC) *'Support'. 31dot 21:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC) :* Removed from Featured status. -- Sulfur 21:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC) Tense Is there any reason that the article is written in past tense? It is written in such a way that I keep asking myself "If the Federation WAS this or that, what has taken it's place now?" 03:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC) :MA:POV. -- Sulfur 03:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC) FA Nomination (16 Feb 2008, Failed) I have rewritten it acording to conventional encyclopedic style used on articles about countries: its size and location, governmental structure, economy and history highlights. I hope it is suitable.– [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 04:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC) *'Oppose (for now)': There is a spacing error that occurs after the section "The Legislature" due to the way that the pictures are placed. On my browser, a fifth of the page is blank before the next section starts. Also I am concerned that there has really been no "flushing out" of this article with talk page comments confined to general syntax but no discussion of major plot areas. No peer review was conducted that I could find although that alone is not a reason for denial. My main objection is due to the spacing error becuase of the picture placement. -FC 21:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC) :I moved the picture up one paragraph and the problem was gone. It also only happened on my home computer; the space was less pronounced on my work terminal. I will change my vote as soon as the other two items are commented upon: 1)no peer review 2)any unresolved talk page issues. -FC 19:43, 19 February 2008 (UTC) ::Comment: there's no spacing problem on my screen. Nonetheless, this issue should be resolved because it likely affects other users. FleetCaptain, perhaps you should play around with the pic placement until it looks fine on your screen. – Cleanse talk 01:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC) :::Comment: I have also looked at the page, and I find no such problem on my screen. -- Rom Ulan 19:15, 19 February 2008 (UTC) :Comment: I withdraw my Oppose vote but I'm holding off on a support vote as there are a lot of edits going on with this article and sections of it are getting cut and pasted back by various users. Not sure exactly whats going on, but will let the article calm down on the edits and then vote again. -FC 18:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC) *'Oppose'. Sorry to do this, but in the days since this was nominated the article has been anything but stable. Lots of material is being re-written, or removed, or added. Even things as simple as they very organization of the article have been altered. The article is simply not in a stable or mature enough state to warrant feature status yet, IMHO. I think this needs to go through a peer review, and then maybe in a week or so come back to nominating it. --OuroborosCobra talk 19:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC) *'Oppose': Oppose as well, withdrawing my withdrawl of my original oppose vote. There are way too many edits going on to this article with random cutting and moving of material. No peer review yet either. Article is in flux right now and needs to calm done before being considered for FA status. I recommend withdrawl of the nomination and waiting about 2-3 months after the article has firmed itself up and a peer review has been conducted. -FC 22:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC) *'Oppose': I have to agree with OuroborosCobra and Fleet Captain, there have just been to many changes over the last few days, as in it hasn't stabilized itself enough to be included as a featured article. Also the not having a peer review doesn't help it that much either.--UESPA 22:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC) Hmm... looks like folks have things to add. I see some useful information hase been put in. Very well. I shall place the article under peer review, and re-nominate it 2 months from now''. Hmm. Gatting an article to be Featured is harder than I thought. – [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 02:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC) FA Nomination (2 March 2008, Failed) This is a re-nomination. I thought I'd wait at least two months to do this, but the peer review seems to be over. Both I and other contributors have made useful additions, to the point where an admin finally removed the peer review notice. I think this is as good as it is going to get. So, that said... I hereby nominate this article for Featured Article status. I believe it to be clear, concise, well-structured and containing all available information on the subject. What say ye all?– [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 12:29, 2 March 2008 (UTC) :It's getting there. I think adding some perspectives of other governments on the Federation would be a good add. Such as, I added the thing about the Breen attacking Earth, that was a big slap in the Federation's face. Also, Weyoun mentioned something about attacking Earth as the way to defeat the Federation (that I think might apply), then there was the comment in or about the Dominion outlasting the Federation, or Ru'afo's comment about the "mighty Federation" 'reeking of death' (or something) because they had been challenged by all major powers in the quadrant. Kind of get that 'fair and balanced' thing going for the article. --Alan ::'''OBJECT: I am objecting based on the time between the two nominations. The last nomination was shut down due to heavy editing and the instability of the article. It was agreed upon that a few months should go by to make sure that the article was not being editing repeatedly with information cut in and cut out over and over again. I think that since just over two weeks has past between the nomination this is not enough time to determine this. I recommend the two month waiting period before considering another round of FA status. -FC 21:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC) I would agree, if the peer review had not been removed by an anministrator. I took that as a sign that all was well and ready. Was I wrong?– [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 21:41, 10 March 2008 (UTC) :::For what it's worth, the peer review template has been removed from the article, because it doesn't belong there in the first place. It still can be seen on the talk page, and the listing on RC still shows it as an active peer review. -- Cid Highwind 22:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC) FA Nomination (19 May 2008, Failed) In keeping with the decision that was made two months ago, I have waited two months until re-submitting this nomination. I now hereby re-nominate this article for Featured Article status. I believe it to be a good representation of MA's work in terms of clarity, structure, organization and content. What say ye all? – [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 20:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC) * What the heck, Support ;-). But I think it would be even better if it had a sidebar along the lines of Romulan Star Empire.– Cleanse 07:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC) *'OPPOSE' I feel that the section about the government is a bit too weak, in particular the part about the judicary. An expansion of this entire area would be very helpful and give it the *umph* that it needs to be a FA. For instance, what about the Seventh Guarantee? Or Aaron Satie? Or the justice process in Author, Author? How about the relationship between the President and Starfleet and what we saw in Homefront? Those are just a few examples of what I mean. I also think a large section could be added speaking about the development of the Federation in Star Trek, in particular how it was referred to in the Original Series vs TNG vs Deep Space Nine as well as an appendix section comparing various facets of the Federation to real world governments. This article has promise, but right now I just think its there yet. -FC 19:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC) ** You make very good points, and indeed, the article does need a bit of tightening. Well, the Fed Constitution and the Seventh Guarantee are already in the article under Federation Constitution. I believe most of the stuff you mention should be covered at Federation law (and I'll add a section which summaries and links to that article). The relationship between the President and Starfleet should indeed be added, probably under a new heading "Military" (where we can also given an overview and link to Starfleet). As for background on the development of the Federation, we have the information on various episode pages (especially those DS9 background sections contributed by Bertaut). Condensing this information on the UFP page would indeed be a good idea.– Cleanse 23:23, 23 May 2008 (UTC) ***I move that this be moved back to the peer review/article talk page and I'll work from there to improve this. We can resubmit when its a bit more advanced. Right now, I think it is lacking some key elements. -FC 15:59, 31 May 2008 (UTC) Nomination failed and archived, issues unresolved after over 7 days.– Cleanse 11:07, 3 June 2008 (UTC) United Fleet of Planets merge Since this is nothing more than an incorrect term based on a misunderstanding and since the actual term is United Federation of Planets, I think it makes sense to merge this with the Federation article. Comments? --From Andoria with Love 06:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC) *'Support'. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC) *'Against a deletion, but maybe support a merge': I thought about that before writing it, but we have a direct verbal reference in a canon episode, i.e. Lokai directly states it and thinks its an organization different from the UFP and Kirk has to correct him. I checked out the policy page and it says "everything seen or heard in any Star Trek episode or movie can be used as a resource for an article". It further expands under "valid resources for articles": "Spoken dialogue (what is said)" This would fall under these two points from the canon policy. -FC 15:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC) :*Addendum to above, I wouldn't have a problem in this getting copied into a new section in the UFP article, something like "other terms for the UFP" or something like that. All too often, I've seen a "merge" become blanking the article and simply putting a redirect in its place. Not that this was done on purpose, I just don't want to see that happen here since this is good material. -FC 15:11, 4 July 2008 (UTC) *'Merge'. The way LDS / LSD is presented is a good precedent to follow here too. --Pseudohuman 15:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC) *'Merge'. It's not an "other term for the UFP", just like LDS is not an "other term for LSD". --TribbleFurSuit 16:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC) ** Read my complete comment, please. By core policies of this site, it is a canon statement and should be somehow mentioned either in this article or in the UFP article. I am not against merging, just against blanking with a redirect. And, oh yes, nice to see you again on an article I am associated with ;-) -FC 20:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC) * Merge. It is also like Ivan Burkoff, which also doesn't have its own article.--31dot 21:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC) Composition of the Federation Total of planets members: 156 According with Articles of the Federation by Keith R.A. DeCandido. This number will increase due to political problems of the Romulans, Breen and Dominion. The borders of the Federation,Klingon,Ferengi,Tholians and Gorn will expand. :non-canon -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 16:30, 28 May 2005 (UTC) ::Do we know exactly what is a "member planet"? Obviously this is a political notion - there are much more than 150 planets in federation space. My first guess is that a member planet is the homeworld of a member species. Then only Earth, Andor, Vulcan, Benzar, Betazed and so on are member planets. ::But perhaps some planets with no indigenous species, but massive colonization can be a member too? Or are colonized planets on a lower rank than homeworlds? do we really know? ::In fact, i find we know very little about the Federation, while almost every movie and episode (except for ENt of course) mention it. For instance, it is supposed to be a democracy, but I can 't remember any reference to elections. -- :::Another expectation is a unified government. It seems clear there are more than 150 planets in Federation space, although this would appear to include some of the larger, more populous colonies (ie Alpha Centauri, although come to think of it, I'm not even sure there is canon evidence to support it being a full member. There are also Federation protectorate worlds, such as Evora. They would appear to be under some Federation jurisdiction, receiving protection and probably trade benefits, but not yet ready for full membership. Jaz 22:27, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) :::: Possibly,colonies, and planets like Alpha Centauri, cast their votes into a "sub-council", where Earth and the Terran colonies cast their votes. then, the sub-council decision becomes the vote of Earth's council seat, although there is know canon evidence, it seems reasonable to theorize...--Sciofficer 22:08, 16 April 2006 (UTC) ::::: Is there any direct canon evidence for Mars being a full member world rather than a colony? With the existence of Martian defense perimeter ships, it would seems as if Mars may have had its own fleet before being absorbed by Starfleet. Additionally, since the Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards are in orbit, it would seem to imply that Mars is relatively important to the Federation. – AarrowOM 21:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC) UFP: Serving the Galaxy Since 2161 I have read here that the Federation was founded on May 8th in 2161, but I've also read elsewhere that an episode or film had established the founding to have taken place on October 11th of the same year. Could someone please tell me the episodes or films both of these dates are derived from? --Shran 14:30, 29 Jun 2005 (UTC) :In , Deanna Troi and the gang are playing poker, and decide to play "Federation Day" poker, where 2s, 6s, an aces are wild. I believe that's where the May 8th day comes from. And I've never heard of the October one, but it might have come from . May 8th is much more widely accepted though. -AJHalliwell 15:06, 29 Jun 2005 (UTC) Ah, I see. Well I thought maybe that May 8th, 2161 was the day that the charter for the Coalition of Planets was signed, and this was the event seen in , and that the Federation was incorporated later on October 11th. I thought this might be the case judging from Deanna Troi's line in "These Are the Voyages..." in which she said: "You wish you could tell them that this alliance would lead to the founding of the Federation." This seems to imply that the Federation would come sometime after the event they were witnessing. I thought it might also be possible that "Voyages" took place in October of 2160 and the Federation came about in May of the following year, but this would contradict the characters' statements that they had been serving aboard the ''Enterprise'' for ten years, given a start of April 2151. --Shran 04:24, 30 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::October 11th, 2161 is the Federation Day listed in Picard's scrapbook in . I don't known if it was seen onscreen.--Tim Thomason 14:37, 6 Jul 2005 (UTC) Ah-ha! The game is afoot, Watson! We need to find out if it was seen on-screen, 'cause if it was, it can be considered canon (even though the Battle of Maxia medal contradicts earlier details). Anyways, thanks. :) --Shran 01:34, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC) :I loved the in-depth look into that album in Star Trek: The Magazine, however, only a very few pages were seen on screen, and the page with the newspaper clipping of Federation founding was not one of them. It also lists Alpha Centauri as a founding member, a later de-canon'd thing. It's Elementary, Dear blue skin.- AJHalliwell 01:40, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC) Even though Alpha Centauri turned out to be an Earth colony, couldn't it have still been a founding member of the UFP? I think it could have and probably would have, unless there's an episode I've forgotten that said it wasn't. --Shran 03:53, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC) Size of the Federation I really doubt the Federation could be 8,000 light-years across, as if so it would take more than 40 years to go from one side of the Federation to another even at warp 9.6, and logistically it would be almost impossible to politically co-ordinate planets which are so wide apart. Furthermore, if the Federation were really 8,000 light-years across, then it would take decades for people on deep space stations (such as Deep Space Nine) to reach Earth, which is clearly not the case according to actual Star Trek TV episodes. Another article I've read states that the "8,000 light-years" figure actually refers to 8,000 square-lightyears, or just about 90 light-years across. Such a figure I think is much more logical. A starship at warp 9.2 can cross such a Federation in just 18 days. - :Actually, it is not an inconsistency. USS Voyager was taken 70,000 light years away from Federation space, and it has been stated that it would take them 70 years to get home. 8,000 light years would 8 years, as has been stated on screen. 90 light years would therefore be highly inconsistent with statements from on screen. --OuroborosCobra talk 07:01, 3 July 2006 (UTC) ::I haven't got the Star Trek Encyclopedia handy at the moment to check the figures exactly, but in the entry on warp technology it does make reference to the fact that at warp 9 it would take a pretty large number of years to cross the Federation - certainly decades. It only drops to practical spans of time up at warp 9.999+, I think. I did wonder myself how you'd manage a society that would take almost a lifetime to travel across... I'll get the exact numbers when I get chance to look at the book again. All I'm really saying is that times in decades are probably right. - Kaitiaki 19:36, 9 July 2006 (UTC) :::Actually the 8,000 figure would have to be talking about volume not area sine the Federation is a 3 dimensional entity. :And why is that? It could mean 8,000 light years across just as easily as that. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC) ::::Further, one will find from a review of average FTL velocities given in episodes that warp speeds are generally higher than the TNG Tech Manual speeds which "cyl" was referencing. Whether you want to attribute this to "warp highways" or writer inconsistency or other things doesn't matter so much . . . the reference to 8000ly is just fine, and is even smaller than the older 10,000ly figure. That older figure came from the same TNG TM which featured low ship speeds, so the inconsistency "cyl" references is not just between the TNG TM and the shows, but within the TNG TM itself. --DSG2k 11:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC) ::::: To my knowledge, the 8000 ly figure is from direct dialogue from Picard to Lily Sloane in 'First Contact'. It's entirely possible that UFP is irregularly shaped (supported by the semi-canonical 'Star Trek Star Charts' by Geoff Mandel), and 8000 ly refers to the longest axis within UFP territory. Also, the DITL warp speed calculator indicates that crossing 8000 ly at TNG-scale Warp 9.6 would a little over four years, not 40; you may be thinking of the original, geometric TOS scale. I doubt 8000 ly refers to volume; 8000 cubic light years would be the volume of a single sector -- 20 ly on each side, as indicated by the semi-canon Okuda works.Ereiid 07:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC) ::::::You have to remember they don't normally travel at warp 8+ unless they need to. I specifically remember the episode in DS9 Fascination when Jakes girlfriend was going away to a school that was 300 light years away. He said it was a long way. Imagine the the European Union if it's member states were so far away that it would take YEARS for them to visit Brussels at the highest speed possible to achieve. Assuming that we don't have the technology we do today. This would make the Union impracticable. What happens if there is a military attack on one side of the federation? The only way they would be able to protect it is if they stationed Starfleet ships at all areas. Forcing the personnel to spend years away from their family. Oh and also if there was a political situation. Imagine having to wait years to hear from an ambassador. – 15:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC) Klingons The Klingon connection It's interesting to note in a possible future that the Klingon Empire will be absorbed by the Federation. It you read the early TNG writer's bible and pay attention to references in the Roddenberry years of TNG, it's implied that the Klingons had already been defeated/absorbed/pacificed at that time. ie Q from Hide and Q (IIRC): "Your people conquered the Klingons." Riker does not dispute him. Thankfully, this angle was not followed up and many of the best episodes in TNG & DS9 explored the Klingon Empire.--GreatBear 23:28, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC) :True enough. There's no other explanation for the Klingon ship in "Heart of Glory" having the Federation seal on its bridge.--DNJimerson 18:06, 22 January 2006 (UTC) : In , When Picard and Wesley are conversing in the shuttle, and Picard begins his story about his encounter with the Nausicaans, Crusher asks,"was this before the Klingons joined the Federation?" although it makes no sense, what's said is said--Sciofficer 22:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC) Klingons as members in the future I am sure I will hate myself when someone points this out to me, but I want to double check the point on Daniels saying the Klingons are members in the 26th century. Granted, it has been a while since I saw the epsisode (that's why I am asking here), but I don't remember Daniel specifically saying that. I remember him saying what races where members of the Enterprise-J crew, and that Xindi and Klingons were among them. I remember seeing Klingon attack cruisers at that future battle (Proxycon was it?). Thing is, I don't remember him saying they were members of the Federation. Their presence on the Enterprise-J does not imply this (Worf was on Enterprise-D after all), and the Klingons often had large fleet engagements along side Starfleet in the Dominion War. Am I missing something? Can someone quote the line that I am missing? Thanks in advance, I'll crawl back into my cave as soon as someone sets me straight. --OuroborosCobra 05:34, 20 June 2006 (UTC) :*DANIELS: It's getting harder and harder to surprise you, Captain. I've brought you to a monumental moment in history, the battle of Procyon Five, where the Federation engaged the Sphere Builders. :*ARCHER: Federation. You've mentioned them before. '' :*DANIELS: ''Vulcans, Andorians, Ithanites, Klingons. Dozens of species, including humans, all unified in a powerful alliance. :Seems to imply membership to me, and I might add, doesn't mention that any Klingons serve aboard the Ent-J. - AJ Halliwell 05:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC) Like I said, been a long time since I watched that one. Thanks AJ, I'll go back to my cave now ;-) --OuroborosCobra 07:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC) Nature of the Federation Interstellar alliance and nature of? Are we certain that the Federation can best be described as an interstellar alliance? It behaves much more like an out-and-out state -- the Federation government declares war, the Federation Starfleet provides security, the Federation Credit is their unit of trade, the Federation Council passes laws, the Federation President gets to declare martial law on Member Planets... it seems very much its own state, not an alliance. -- User:Sci 11/15/04 :Has anything in the canon ever provided details about the exact nature of this alliance? Is the Federation a strong federalized republic like the United States? Or more of a loose confederation like the EU, but with a common defense?Gotham23 16:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC) ::To a point, it's a matter of interpretation. Canonically-speaking, however, the Federation has all of the characteristics of a nation-state -- there's a Federation President who is capable of declaring martial law in Federation Member States such as United Earth, there's a Federation Council that was able to pass laws affecting both domestic (warp 5 speed limit) and foreign (giving the Founders the cure for their virus, declaring war, refusing to support Klingon invasion of Cardassia) policies, there's a military organization that is answerable only to the Federation government and not to its Member State governments (Starfleet), there's a large, Federation-wide bureaucracy for everything from archeology to cartography, there's a Federation Supreme Court that apparently is the court of last resort in the entire UFP, there's a common sense of cultural vis a vis "traditional Federation values" espoused by the New Essentialist Movement... Basically, every indication, I would say, is that the Federation is a strong federalized republic. It doesn't appear to be a unitary state -- Federation Members do seem to have areas of exclusive jurisdiction over which the Federation government may not intervene, and its members do maintain domestic security/space forces (much as US states maintain state militaries). So it does indeed resemble the US insofar as power and authority are distributed between the Federation and its members. ::Now, who the heck knows the inner workings of the government? We don't know for sure that Federation Councilors or Federation Presidents are popularly elected, though that seems to be the implication. We don't know the relationship between the presidency and the council, nor between either of those two and the Supreme Court. It's possible that it's a parliamentary system, it's possible it's a semi-parliamentary system. It's possible that the Member States appoint their councilors. It's possible that representation in the Federation government is like the US's, or the UK's, or France's, or the UN's, or the EU's. We don't know. ::If we expand our pallet to include the novels, Articles of the Federation establishes that the Federation Council is a unicameral body with a single councilor for each Member State, with each Member State determining for itself how its councilor will be determined. The president is popularly elected by all Federation citizens after the qualified candidates are declared by the Council, and the President and Council's relationship is a cross between the Prime Minister/Parliament and US President/Congress relationships insofar as a president must preside over full meetings of the Council. The president appoints councilors to the Council's committees, whom the full Council then ratify, and can preside over committee meetings. There's an allusion to the UN insofar as the five founding Federation Members -- United Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, and Alpha Centauri -- automatically get seats on the Federation Council's national security committee. The Council may pass legislation and the president may veto it; a veto may be overridden. Legislation is introduced into committees and passed onto the full council for approval. The full Council can over-ride presidential foreign policy directives, though that's generally left to the president to determine. ::But, all that is non-canonical, so take it as you will. -- Sci 16:57 12 OCT 2006 UTC :::It'll make for good primer when the authors and scripters someday come here to actually figure out/learn how their invented systems work... --ChrisK 07:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC) Mostly Humans? Could we say it is mainly Humans in Starfleet because most of that species have a penchant for exploration?Gul Reid 19:27, 15 Jul 2005 (UTC) Citizenship? Should we have something on citizenship in the Federation? Or would that be completely non-canon?- B-101 13:28, 8 Oct 2004 (CEST) :Well, the question should be asked the other way around: Is there any canon information about citizenship in the Federation? If yes, it should of course be added to the article. If not, it shouldn't. -- Cid Highwind 13:42, 8 Oct 2004 (CEST) I'm going to search on Google to see if there is anything related to citizenship in the Federation, although it may be non-canon. I'll post links to any sites I find here so you guys can investigate them up close.- B-101 18:36, 8 Oct 2004 (CEST) I looked at some stuff on Google. Most of the sites I found didn't have what I think was canon info on citizenship in the Federation.- B-101 13:28, 12 Oct 2004 (CEST) ::In the DS9 episode, 'The Sound of Her Voice', the character Lisa Cusak, described herself as a federation citizen in a distress call. Therefor there must be citizens and the federation must be a state. :::A number of DS9 episodes make passing reference to Federation citizenship. In the DS9 episode "For the Cause," Sisko and Eddington talk about Federation citizenship: Sisko says that Kasidy Yates is a Federation citizen and therefore cannot be searched without probable cause, while Eddington notes that the Maquis are not Federation citizens. In "Heart of Stone," Sisko notes that Nog, as a Ferengi, is not a Federation citizen and therefore must be sponsed by a high-ranking officer to apply for Starfleet Academy. Puritan 21:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC) Membership The membership section could use info on the requirements for membership. Planetary unity, warp capability, etc. Jaf 00:32, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)Jaf :I made one addition to point out that, after 7 years, Bajor still hadn't finished the application process. I think the wording could use some work, though. --Icesyckel 04:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC) ::Bajor is a special case. Remember that after 5 years, they were to be admitted, and were literally on the eve of admission in 2373 before Sisko put a stop to it in , acting as the Emissary of the Prophets. So in fact, Bajor cannot be used as an example of it taking 7 years. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:45, 2 December 2007 (UTC) :I remember that - yes. After the war was over, why weren't they admitted if they were ready? Could that imply that the process can take >7 years? Just a thought. --Icesyckel 05:01, 2 December 2007 (UTC) ::Not really. We barely see anything after the war. We don't know that one week later, they weren't admitted. The only movie set after the war doesn't touch on the subject, as far as I know. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC) Carol Marcus' quote "Starfleet has kept the peace for a hundred years...", circa 2285. Backtrack to 2185...and that's about 25 years after the Federation's founding. Should reference be made to no war (what with the Organian influence imposing that the Feds and Klingons be kept on opposite sides of the playground...) existing for approximately one century by that time? --ChrisK 09:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC) :I can't recall to what she was referring to, but on-screen evidence seems to suggest that the Federation had not held the peace for all that time. According to Jean-Luc Picard, the was a decades-long "war" between the Federation and the Klingons some time following initial contact (likely part of the 70 years of adversity mentioned by Spock in ). There were also conflicts with the Axanar, with the outcome of the subsequent peace mission permitting Kirk and Spock to serve together (apparently, the Federation itself was at risk of disbanding or at least losing Vulcan as a member, but that's just pure fanon speculation). And I'm sure there were many other wars or conflicts that I'm forgetting that occurred between 2185 and 2285... --From Andoria with Love 20:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC) :Quite frankly, I take that to mean that Starfleet had kept the peace within the Federation. In the TOS era, I have always felt the Federation to be portrayed as a much looser alliance between the different member races than we see in the TNG era. Just take how the ambassadors acted in , they were outright hostile towards each other. I have always taken this quote to mean that despite the difficulties between the member worlds, Starfleet had kept the peace within the Federation for about 100 years. At the time of Star Trek II, the Federation is still only about a century old. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC) ::So in other words, it was like the "united States" were before the Civil War, after which the United States was. --ChrisK 10:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC) Is the Federation democratic? The Federation supposedly stands for all that is just and right, but then why is it that (AFAIK) no character has ever mentioned any upcoming elections, awareness of politicians or any formal partisan politics? I don't think its just because the series never got round to mentioning it, as the series did mention almost every other aspect of life within the Federation. Are the Federation's citizens completely uninvolved in the governing of the Federation, or are there any canon explanations, or non-canon explanations, (or heck, even speculation will do), given to answer this seemingly glaring inconstancy. Thanks. 82.36.179.20 23:33, 16 April 2008 (UTC) :Everybody has a Universal Translator, and it actually collects their words and polls support. So no actual election event is necessary because the pollsters already know who everyone wants. 99.163.50.104 23:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC) ::I don't think there will ever be a canon answer or mention of detailed political aspects, as it would bog down the episode or movie it would be in. The writers of considered going into detail about the relationship between the Federation and the Earth government, but decided not to for that reason.--31dot 23:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC) :::Sisko in describes the Federation President as democratically elected. It's in the context of him stating that Federation citizens wouldn't accept Leyton's military dictatorship. So its incorrect to say that the Federation has never been said to be democratic.– Cleanse 03:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC) Requirements for admission to the Federation? Does a group apply for membership to the Federation, or do they get invited? If they apply, do they apply as a planet or as a species? When applying, is the species required to divulge to the Federation all it's qualities and abilities, special powers, etc? Is there a penalty against member species if they are found to have concealed certain facts about their species?-- 17:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC) :Clues can be found in , , and , among others. --Alan 17:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)